For defence intelligence officers of our country the 5th of November is a special day. Back in 1918, on that day by the order of the Revolutionary Military Council was introduced the Field Staff of SMF, which provided creation of the body of the Commandment of the Defence Intelligence — Registration Department. Certainly, in the current sovereign states at the former Soviet territories, most Defence Intelligence structures have their own professional holidays. Although it cannot prevent all Defence Intelligence Officers to remember the origins and celebrate such an important date in history.
Best of all of the DefenceIntelligence can tell he who had gone through all its ranks and posts, had been in the midst of the hottest events and has the moral right to evaluate them. Our interlocutor is Lieutenant General Victor Hvozd, Chief of the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine in 2008-2010.
“2000”'s note:
Hvozd Victor Ivanovych — Lieutenant General, Honored Lawyer of Ukraine.
Career:
- 1981-1993 — Served in command and staff positions in the units and subunits of the Military Intelligence of the Soviet Union and Ukraine.
- 1993-1995 — Participation in UN peacekeeping operations in the former Yugoslavia.
- 1996-1999 — Defence Attaché at the Embassy of Ukraine in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina (part-time).
- 1999-2000 — Deputy Chief of the Military-Diplomatic control of Ukraine.
- 2000-2003 — Representative of Ukraine to the United Nations in Permanent Mission of Ukraine to UN, a member of the Ukrainian delegation at the UN Security Council.
- 2003-2005 — In command positions in the Security Service and the Intelligence Service of Ukraine.
- 2005-2008 — In the civil service: The Head of the Department of Programs of the Security and Defense Policy of the Secretariat of the President of Ukraine.
- 2008-2010 — Chief of the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine.
It is common knowledge that there is no such thing as former Intelligence officers. Is it not due to this fact that veteran, other non-governmental organizations uniting them continue to influence events both, in the country and around it?
— A true Intelligence officer is a statesman in the full sense of the word, regardless of whether he is in some post or not. No matter how pompous it may sound, but his duty is to serve his people not for rewards or praising. After all, working in the Intelligence is a way of life. However, not all those who had served in Intelligence bodies, are perceived by the Intelligence community. Over the years of independent Ukraine, to be honest, a lot of come-and-go people have gone through the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine. And some of them on the Internet, usually under nicknames, keep talking about Intelligence...
As for veterans' organizations, in my opinion, their role can hardly be overestimated. Their activities should be aimed primarily at helping the retired from active intelligence activities, contributing to social adaptation of the dismissed from the service, creating possibility of communication in the usual circle of friends. The best of the veterans should bring up the rising generation. Besides, at post-Soviet territories veterans-intelligence officers can be good unofficial “communicators” in resolution of many conflicts.
— Was it easy for you to get used to the new way of life? Have you remained in the ranks of Intelligence people as a veteran?
— I'll be honest: it is bitter, when you, a man, who has dedicated all his life to service to the Fatherland, suddenly are deprived of the opportunity to realize yourself in the civil service only because the political environment in the state has changed and “up to it” they begin to “smooth out” first of all professionals, replacing them with “insiders”. Many of your friends and comrades, remaining in service, avoid contact, for fear of being compromised in the eyes of those in power. So your phone book begins to “lose weight”, and the list of those whom you'd follow to combat blindfolded, keeps being corrected.
But for quite a while I have been following the principle: “I have no friends, no enemies — I have only teachers”. Among them, by the way, is the publisher, Chief Editor of the weekly “2000” Sergey Kichigin.
When he was our teacher of Chinese, he was already distinguished by innovative thinking, and if we take into account the fact that in those years, almost no one questioned the strength and future of the Soviet Union, and we can say at a lot of things he already then had his own “opportunistic views”.
Another interesting fact is that at the time, when I was Chief of the Defence Intelligence, he never tried to arrange an interview with me, and did so only after a few years, when many of the events can be seen as if from the outside and we can speak about some things. So he was really someone to learn from.
It is especially difficult to former senior government officials. On the one hand, with a decent pension by Ukrainian standards, find yourself a hobby, educate grandchildren. But one cannot calmly watch what is happening around us. After all, this country is for our children and grandchildren to live in!
— There must have been lots of interesting episodes in your service, coupled with danger. Can you tell us about them?
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The mission in the Balkans |
— I can already tell about some. For example, about what happened in 1995 in the Balkans. In the spring the situation in the Serbian Krajina was becoming more and more tense. Croats were preparing for the operation “Oluya”, the final blow to the Serbian paramilitary units in order to take full control of the territory of Serbian Krajina. At this time in the rear of the Serbs, near the village of Bihach (the territory of Bosnia) got noticeably activated the 5th Army Corps (AC) of Muslims under the command of General Dudakovych. A peacekeeping Battalion from Bangladesh was blocked there. Not a single convoy with food from Zagreb could not get through to it. Serbs feared that the peacekeeping convoy would illegally bring weapons for Muslims.
The situation was critical. And then the Chief of Logistics of the UN Forces in the former Yugoslavia, a French Colonel, invited me (I was in charge of Information- Analytical Department of Logistics Staff ANPROFOR — as abbreviated were called the UN Forces in the country - Ed.) and told me that since the area of responsibility of the Ukrainian Peacekeeping Battalion is just on the route of the convoy, I should take the command of the convoy. He also warned me that unofficially in the convoy there will be two Colonels — representatives of the Intelligence Services of Great Britain and Denmark, who would carry out reconnaissance in Bihach for a possible reconfiguration of the UN forces in the area. I had to agree, but with one condition: all, regardless of ranks and positions, would obey to my commands. The Commandment of ANPROFOR agreed. After that I created synergies with the Intelligence of the Ukrainian 60th Separate Special Battalion and Military Police of the sector. The benefit of the sector was in charge of Ukrainian General Serhiy Mokrynets.
Next morning, a convoy of 20 huge trucks loaded mainly with food set out. As expected, at the very first “check-point” Serbs stopped us. They were surprised that at the head of the convoy was a Ukrainian. A Serb, who reeked of brandy, pressed the machine gun to the glass of the truck at the level of my helmet and read me a lecture on Orthodox brotherhood and unity, accusing us of all deadly sins.
Having calmed down, he and his friends expressed a desire to test all the twenty lorries. To do this, from each truck containers had to be taken off for opening. And when the Danish Colonel rushed to explain that this way the UN procedure was violated, I had to remind him in the military language that he was just a passenger and it was I who was making decisions. In a word, the inspection was delayed.
In the evening the order came from Zagreb to stop the convoy for the night. But my Intelligence agents reported that the Serbs were doing so intentionally, and in the morning they, being afraid that at night something could have been put into the convoy, would start the inspection all over again. From the Headquarters of the ANPROFOR I was told that if I drive the convoy at night, it will be at my personal responsibility. In the morning, thanks to the skillful and coordinated actions of the Ukrainian Defence Intelligence and the participants of the convoy, we without any losses arrived at the dislocation of the Bangladeshi Battalion. True, there were some fun facts too. The convoy was met not only by peacemakers, but also by representatives of the 5th AK of Muslims. One of them wanted to celebrate with a machine gun salute, but sending machine gun fire from the bottom up, he shot his leg, along with the car of the Intelligence Colonels. Thanks God, the squirt pierced only the hood, not the cabin.
A day later, instead of at 6 am as planned, despite the grumbling of the same Colonels, at 3 a.m. I led the convoy back. And the Ukrainian Intelligence blocked the most dangerous places on the route. Later in Zagreb the authorities admitted that they almost did not believe in the success of the convoy. But I did not tell them that it was flowers in comparison with how we regularly in 1980s used to go onto the Mongolian-Chinese border on alert from Genghis Khan's Shaft to Erlyansk Promontory in the area of responsibility of the 2nd Armored Division in Mongolia.
— What would you advise young people who have come to serve in the Intelligence? After all, its psychology is clearly different from the one you and your peers had in the years of your youth...
— First of all, to remember that work in the Intelligence is not stills from films about James Bond, but exhausting, responsible and dangerous work. It is the only state structure, located on the line of fire in peacetime. Having plunged into the work, the youth soon realizes this. And then each newcomer evaluates himself and his capabilities. And starts to think differently.
— Then let's put the question specifically, taking into consideration realities of our life. Will a young man get into Intelligence Service if his parents don’t have useful acquaintances?
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| With the legendary Intelligence officer Eugene Bereznyak — Major Vykhor (Whirlwind) and his wife / / Photos from Victor Hvozd's the Personal File |
— The young man does have chances to get into Intelligence. Especially if he wants to. But I am sure that a career in the Intelligence must begin in the Armed Forces, from the bottom. There the Intelligence officer is formed as a person, in a reconnaissance group, based signals Intelligence, while acting as an interpreter, an officer of the Information Division. But even this does not always guarantee that you can be a true Intelligence officer.
As the Chief of the Defence Intelligence, I issued a most cruel order: to select candidates for our Academy only from troops, taking into consideration their abilities and merits, not cronyism. Not everyone understood me, even those at higher ranks and in high positions. I remember this because I had a serious conversation with one of the Deputy Ministers of Defence. We “failed to find a common understanding of the situation...”
— Let's talk about your current activities. What, in your view, are the prospects of the Ukrainian market of information-analytical services, and non-governmental research centers?
— This market is in its infancy in this country. We can't say that there are no such centers in Ukraine. But their role in state decision-making is very modest. This is due solely to the Ukrainian specifics. On the one hand, the leadership of the state believes that “the court” analytical structures are enough, the rest of them are just for the background, as accessories for wealthy citizens. And in case of force majeure circumstances, means will be found to invite a think tank from abroad, for a specific task.
In the United States and in Russia it's different. State agencies and think tanks are working closely, more so, they receive substantial support. Because it is a very powerful tool both, in information campaigns, and in information standoffs.
— What, do you think, should be done to be on a par with brands such as the “Rand” corporation?
— There is an anecdote. The Englishman was asked: “What is the secret of the beauty of your lawn? No matter how hard we try – nothing works”. “The Englishman replied, “How long have you been mowing your lawn?” “About five years.” “When you have been mowing it for two hundred years, as we have been, then you will achieve our result.”
Of course, a brand needs time, personnel, finance, and public understanding of the need for such structures. One can’t do without obsessed leaders. “Rand” is a great example to follow, especially for us, because it was created in 1946 by ex-military.
— Is the state interested in an independent and high quality information- analytical support to the activity of the government?
— So far, government agencies have not offered us cooperation. But we know that our materials are of interest to some, they study them (we keep track of the number of visits to our site). Our materials are useful for some structures in their work. That is, our efforts are not being wasted.
But then we have been working for less than a year. From the experience of such centers in the United States, Europe, Russia we know that promotion lasts for at least two years, or even more. If nothing extraordinary happens, then we will be able to have our say. Our state is being built with great difficulty, and nobody is going to help us in this building for free. Therefore, politicians, sleeves rolled up, need to mobilize the society, to take care of fair and equal conditions for all citizens of Ukraine, to make everyone respect the Law. This is the only way to save our country and give it its rightful place in the world.
I should add that our state either has not matured to close cooperation with think tanks or independent analytical product's quality is not up to its demands.
— What inspired you to create “Borysfen?” Does Ukraine still have vacant niches for such activity?
— Over 20 years of independence a true personnel disaster has become the practice of throwing hundreds of professionals into the street and giving their jobs to “insiders” with each change of government.” I was “lucky” to experience such “cleanings” myself twice. For the first time in 2004. True, Yushchenko soon returned to the Presidential Secretariat the mid-level specialists, on whose shoulders rests all the work. However, when a new President took office, the old story happened again. Many people, including me, were promised that we would not be left without a job, but...
Here on this wave a decision to establish an analytical center came, because its principles and content of the work do not differ from what what I had to do all my life: collecting and processing information, preparing analytical product. The difference is that today we are using only open sources. They, as is known, contain up to 90 % of information. If you manage to distil it. If only the knowledge and experience allow to separate the wheat from the chaff. In our center, the analytical capacity is former Intelligence officers, diplomats, military journalists, who have not betrayed their calling.
— Give examples of when “Borysfen” managed to forecast high profile incidents well in advance?
— I think enough material on the upcoming Association with the EU, analytics, a variety of information, participation of members of the “Borysfen” in international conferences have done their share of useful work. After all, nine months ago our society stood at the crossroads: the CU or the EU?
At the beginning of the year we predicted just such developments around Iran, which observe. While many were expecting air strikes from day to day.
— Was there a temptation to create a private defence analytical company like the American Stratfor and provide information and analytical services in a variety of hot and cold spots of the world?
— There was no such temptation. Stratfor and such like are enough.
— Is it possible to quickly and safely get rid of the destructive domination of other countries in the information space of Ukraine?
— This requires consolidation of the society around the national idea, the essence of which is strengthening and development of Ukraine as a powerful regional state, able to confidently defend its own interests and to ensure its safety. This, in its turn, requires unconditional respect for the basic principles of the statehood, in particular it is necessary to preserve the unity of national identity and the inviolability of our borders, to prevent federalization of the country and attempts to give the status of an official state language to other languages, to prohibit dual citizenship, and to prevent the loss of Ukrainian spiritual and cultural values under the influence of external forces. It is vitally important to organize an active offensive information campaign to defend our own interests and to counteract the influence of external information.
— Is it difficult to bring the people in Ukraine to the streets, correctly “playing on the keys” of the mass media, especially in social networks?
— I think, today, in our situation, social networks can take a supporting role. A more serious irritant is needed to make our people take to the streets. The first great danger is the accumulated in the society critical mass of negative effects caused by the lack of confidence of citizens in a fair resolution of conflicts, lawlessness of local authorities, corrupt courts, and difficult economic situation. Classic example is the reaction of the population to police brutality in Vradievka. And if our life won’t change for better, soon it will be easy to provoke a serious conflict. Naturally, it is necessary to take into account external factors.
— In the context of the realities of European integration is the Ukrainian private business (focused primarily on Russia) not afraid to lose the Russian market?
— Perhaps at the first stage it will lose it. But it is a good stimulus for the transition from raw material primitive production to highly technological one. After all, these challenges are not only for Ukraine but also for Russia. Therefore, the opening of the EU market will make us as soon as possible wake up from our lethargy and understand that in times of globalization and lack of resources it is necessary to try as soon as possible to join the ranks of those who realized this, and to use our huge potential. But again, I am going back to the fact that in power should be national elite (those who sacrifice themselves for the benefit of the people, not those who came to power with one purpose - to enrich themselves). Therefore, as Taras Shevchenko said, we'll see whether Ukraine will succeed in waiting for its own Washington “with a new, true and just Law”. Although the process has started. And, unfortunately, we are due to serious tests ahead. And they will answer, whether we are worth being a free and independent state, being masters in our own home again, or will return to the slave-groveller position.
— What is happening in the Armed Forces of Ukraine is generally defined as “the reform of the Army.” But some politicians and experts in their speeches mentioned the “military reform”. Is this a mistake or is there a reason to believe that the country will start the reform of the power-wielding structures?
— In this political situation, any military reform is out of the question. A reform of the Army, despite the fact that they are trying to carry it out, has no prospects. And the reason is simple. Firstly — the current financial and economic situation is not conducive to this, secondly — the team in power is not the one which would cope with this task. The very question of reducing the Armed Forces of Ukraine by up to 72 thousand people in combat units and 50 thousand — in the structures of security is, to put it mildly, incompetent.
To objectively assess how much today's and tomorrow's (after reduction) number of the Armed Forces is up to the task of ensuring a reliable defense, you should compare it with the strength of the army of the European countries, which also have made defense doctrine and stick to a neutral and non-aligned status. Switzerland with the population of 7.7 million people maintains a conscription army and has a constant number of 22 thousand troops, including 9 thousand regular officers. Austria with its population of 8.4 million has 41 thousand servicemen and 19 thousand army officers. Finland with the population of 5.5 million people has 16.800 troops, of whom 8.5 thousand are regular officers.
Therefore, if this state does not need the Army, it is easier to eliminate it. And in general, maybe the state itself is not needed? What for? We have been persuaded for centuries that we are not a state-building nation. Let Russia or Poland or NATO protect us. We are constantly being imposed, especially by the bought so-called Ukrainian elite, whose chief god is dollar, that it is necessary to lie down under one or other. But they are wrong, in Ukrainian society there are forces that are able not only to solve these issues, but also others. All that is needed is time and their consolidation.
— Is it possible to implement in Ukraine such scenarios as a “revolution” in Libya or Syria?
— If the society does not get consolidated around a national idea, if a consensus is not found on both sides of the Dnieper, if we fail to change the economic situation for the better, and most importantly — if we do not manage to integrate into the European cultural space, then we will face uncertain times with all the consequences.
— What are horror stories about Romanian, Turkish, Crimean Tatar, etc. threats based on?
— Horror stories or not horror stories, but problems do exist. Only one example: in 1945, Serbian and Albanian population of Kosovo in the former Yugoslavia, was 50% x 50%. In the late 1980s it was around 15 to 85 as a percentage. As a result, despite the fact that Kosovo is the cradle of the Serbian Orthodox Church, where is the area? It is therefore necessary to consider everything today and on this basis to build our policy. And that's just one of the challenges facing Ukraine in the international arena. It is fashionable to use the term “soft power”. But it is a very dangerous and insidious weapon.
— After retirement how soon did you find a use for your experience and knowledge?
— “Fallen” on me free time, made me take another look at the life and to reconsider many approaches. I slowly got used to freedom, knowing how much it is worth. About a year went on improving my health. Then took up an uneasy, but my favorite work. Around me again have gathered like-minded people. There is a desire to promote the analytical centre, - it is not easy, but it is interesting. I have learned to enjoy small successes. I do get tired. Sometimes I want to quit. But as a colleague of mine once said, you can give up it when people start leaving you. So far they are not going away. New ones come to our shore. If nothing else, with an intelligence group one should go to the end.
Tatyana Savchenko
This article was published in Issue 44 (675) November 1–7, 2013
